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2021-03-31 Rules Engines Drafting Group Meeting Notes

2021-03-31 Rules Engines Drafting Group Meeting Notes

Mar 31, 2021

Attendees

  • @Chris B, chair

  • @David Luchuk

  • @Drummond Reed

  • Eric Doherty

  • Guy

  • @Jim StClair

  • @Kaliya Young

  • @Noam Arzt

  • Rob Broere

  • Savita Faroqui

  • @Steve Magennis

  • @Todd Gehrke

  • @Tony Rose

  • @Trev Harmon, PM

  • Viola

  • Yochai

Agenda Items

Time 

Item

Who

Time 

Item

Who

5 min

Welcome & antitrust policy notice

Trev Harmon

5 min

Introductions

Everyone

10 min

Establishment of on-going meetings

Chair

 

Discussion on drafting group questions and outcomes

 

3 min

Wrap up

Chair 

Presentations -

Recording - Link

Notes

  1. Welcome and Linux Foundation antitrust policy
    Trev Harmon reviewed the top-level information about participation in the drafting group.
    Chris Buchanan did a top-level introduction of why we are doing this work.

  2. Did a round of introductions.

  3. Discussion of on-going meeting time(s):

    1. We'll be starting with daily check-ins. According to the poll done in Slack, proposed start times are (GMT):  14:00, 15:00, and 16:00

    2. Noam asked about what is meant by daily.

    3. Determined to do a poll on the appropriate time for these meetings.

    4. Meetings will be scheduled for 30 minutes.

    5. It is understood that it isn't expected that everyone will be able to make every meeting. We're on a tight timeline, so we are starting off agressively.

  4. Discussion on group operating procedures:

    1. We can start the discussions on Slack, but it can be difficult when there are multiple discussions.

    2. Drummond suggested that we start with a single Google Docs to collect the initial feedback, and then break into separate documents as needed.

  5. Review of our "Key Interoperability Questions" per the GHPC Interoperability Blueprint Outline:

    1. Noam asked if we needed to stick with these questions. We can add additional questions to the work that we're doing.

    2. We do need to answer these base questions, as they are keyed towards interoperability.

  6. Reviewed: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iN-0tIKMtkSEWJdi5GkUJVHBCid4FBYDFQ5pBSEa6EU/edit

  7. Drummond provided an explanation of IIW (Internet Identity Workshop), and why it's a good target.

  8. A conversation started in terms of how a rules engine and rules in general relates to identity. There was some disagreement regarding the applicability in terms of their autonomy from other system components and time- and space-shifting. This is a topic that the drafting group will need to address more fully moving forward. Tabled for future discussion.

Chat Log

14:03:38 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/ 14:07:47 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : Is there a link to this deck? 14:13:47 From Trev Harmon to Everyone : I'll put a copy of it into our Slack channel after the meeting. 14:15:04 From Chris Buchanan - MITRE to Everyone : https://youtu.be/AQqJlxI8-9g 14:16:25 From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone : MITRE its charted by the government it earns its keep from contracts from the government but doesn’t make a profit. its a magical special flower. In other countries it might be called a crown corporation. 14:20:37 From Trev Harmon to Everyone : Here's a link to the deck we started with: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1T3qZsBMji2WgKN20MT89e7NJxu7gtnzkltAYfYIqA4E/ 14:26:20 From Jim StClair to Everyone : +1 to “magical special flower”, @kaliya. That’s better than “Federally Funded Research and Development Center” (FFRDC) 14:27:04 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : Poll 14:30:56 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : Suggestion: designate one or two of the dailies the most important for those of us who can’t get to all the dailies. 14:31:47 From Tony Rose to Everyone : 7am pt won’t conflict w paper creds at 8 am 14:32:28 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : I simply won't attend regularly at that early hour. But that's just me. 14:36:49 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : +1 to Google docs for developing our docs and discussing keep questions/issues 14:37:31 From Tony Rose to Everyone : +1 google doc 14:38:43 From Trev Harmon to Everyone : +1 to Drummond's suggestion 14:39:10 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : No, we are not confined to these questions 14:39:36 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : Blame Jim St. Clair. That’s what I do ;-) 14:39:45 From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone : I do think asking if there are more questions this group should answer is worth while 14:45:12 From David Luchuk to Everyone : I have to drop off this call. Please let me know if anything goes haywire. See you all out there … 14:46:17 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : What is IIW? 14:46:30 From Steve Magennis to Everyone : Internet Identity Workshop 14:46:31 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : Internet Identity Workshop - [Internet Identity Workshop 14:46:33 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : I guess not the International Institute of Welding... 14:46:35 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ 14:46:49 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : And its significance? 14:47:57 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : If we do have "deadlines" it helps me if those are communicated via email. That's how I take in tasks. But that's just me. 14:48:05 From Jim StClair to Everyone : @Noam, it’s just the biggest identity loolapalooza 14:48:14 From Chris Buchanan - MITRE to Everyone : @noam will do… 14:48:46 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : Wells, "rules engine" does not seem to be an identity issue to me. 14:49:22 From Rob Broere to Everyone : Would the drafting members have access to IIW without being charged.... If we put in a lot of effort in that is being presented to IIW I would argue IIW attendees will benefit... 14:50:13 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : Rob, that’s a very good question. Hopefully Kaliya might be able to check into that (she’s one of the three co-hosts of the event). 14:50:43 From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone : IIW is committed to accessability 14:50:54 From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone : if you would like to attend and can’t afford it please reach out 14:51:02 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : +1 14:51:42 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : There can be some rules about what kind of identity verifier may or may not be required for a specific use case. 14:51:47 From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone : (or if for whatever reason your company has NOT allocated any budget for virtual events) (which has happened to some folks) 14:52:33 From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone : It would be good to have some architecture diagrams to be clear about what types for rules engines go where for what reasons 14:53:48 From Steve Magennis to Everyone : there is the need to verify binding of information to a physical person 14:53:50 From Savita Farooqui to Everyone : would it be useful to be more specific like validation/verification rules? 14:54:08 From Steve Magennis to Everyone : maybe not a name and address, but identity nonetheless 14:54:41 From Trev Harmon to Everyone : Rules engines act on identity attributes, which can and likely will contain PII. They also will need to act in concert with other identification systems. 14:55:23 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : But the core of the "rules" is what the clinical events captured in the credential mean. This is a clinical rule. Seems to me everything flows from that. 14:55:29 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : Highly recommended reading for all members of this group: https://www.goodhealthpass.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/GHPC-Interoperability-Blueprint-Outline-v2.pdf 14:56:53 From Steve Magennis to Everyone : @Noam, agree. with the caveat that rules *may* or may not require PII 14:57:19 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : +1 14:57:27 From Steve Magennis to Everyone : TSA might want a name 'just because' 14:58:11 From Drummond Reed to Everyone : That’s where we need the social pressure of the Good Health Pass Ecosystem Governance Framework and its privacy recommendations. 14:58:17 From Trev Harmon to Everyone : Yes. The rules engines will also be taking into account non-clinical events, such as border policy. 14:59:04 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : Right. But the border policy has to be invoked only once you decide how to clinically evaluate the vaccination (or test) information! 14:59:35 From Trev Harmon to Everyone : Agreed. It's a confluence of several things. 14:59:40 From Chris Buchanan - MITRE to Everyone : At least in the US, people will need to get their checkmark before arriving at the border. 15:00:08 From Noam Arzt (HLN) to Everyone : Well, US is a whole other problem. No central authority for vaccination certification.

 

Action Items

  1. Participants to fill out the Slack poll regarding the on-going meetings' time slot.

  2. Participants to provide answers, thoughts, comments, and questions on the groups Key Interoperability Questions, and may suggest additional questions for consideration.