2021-03-31 Rules Engines Drafting Group Meeting Notes

Attendees

@Chris B, chair
@David Luchuk
@Drummond Reed
Eric Doherty
Guy
@Jim StClair
@Kaliya Young
@Noam Arzt
Rob Broere
Savita Faroqui
@Steve Magennis
@Todd Gehrke
@Tony Rose
@Trev Harmon, PM
Viola
Yochai

Agenda Items

Time	Item	Who

Time	Item	Who
5 min	Welcome & antitrust policy notice	Trev Harmon
5 min	Introductions	Everyone
10 min	Establishment of on-going meetings	Chair
	Discussion on drafting group questions and outcomes
3 min	Wrap up	Chair

Presentations -

Recording - Link

Notes

Welcome and Linux Foundation antitrust policy
Trev Harmon reviewed the top-level information about participation in the drafting group.
Chris Buchanan did a top-level introduction of why we are doing this work.
Did a round of introductions.
Discussion of on-going meeting time(s):
1. We'll be starting with daily check-ins. According to the poll done in Slack, proposed start times are (GMT): 14:00, 15:00, and 16:00
2. Noam asked about what is meant by daily.
3. Determined to do a poll on the appropriate time for these meetings.
4. Meetings will be scheduled for 30 minutes.
5. It is understood that it isn't expected that everyone will be able to make every meeting. We're on a tight timeline, so we are starting off agressively.
Discussion on group operating procedures:
1. We can start the discussions on Slack, but it can be difficult when there are multiple discussions.
2. Drummond suggested that we start with a single Google Docs to collect the initial feedback, and then break into separate documents as needed.
Review of our "Key Interoperability Questions" per the GHPC Interoperability Blueprint Outline:
1. Noam asked if we needed to stick with these questions. We can add additional questions to the work that we're doing.
2. We do need to answer these base questions, as they are keyed towards interoperability.
Reviewed: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iN-0tIKMtkSEWJdi5GkUJVHBCid4FBYDFQ5pBSEa6EU/edit
Drummond provided an explanation of IIW (Internet Identity Workshop), and why it's a good target.
A conversation started in terms of how a rules engine and rules in general relates to identity. There was some disagreement regarding the applicability in terms of their autonomy from other system components and time- and space-shifting. This is a topic that the drafting group will need to address more fully moving forward. Tabled for future discussion.

Chat Log

14:03:38 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/
14:07:47 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : Is there a link to this deck?
14:13:47 From  Trev Harmon  to  Everyone : I'll put a copy of it into our Slack channel after the meeting.
14:15:04 From  Chris Buchanan - MITRE  to  Everyone : https://youtu.be/AQqJlxI8-9g
14:16:25 From  Kaliya Identity Woman  to  Everyone : MITRE its charted by the government it earns its keep from contracts from the government but doesn’t make a profit.   its a magical special flower. In other countries it might be called a crown corporation.
14:20:37 From  Trev Harmon  to  Everyone : Here's a link to the deck we started with:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1T3qZsBMji2WgKN20MT89e7NJxu7gtnzkltAYfYIqA4E/
14:26:20 From  Jim StClair  to  Everyone : +1 to “magical special flower”, @kaliya. That’s better than “Federally Funded Research and Development Center” (FFRDC)
14:27:04 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : Poll
14:30:56 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : Suggestion: designate one or two of the dailies the most important for those of us who can’t get to all the dailies.
14:31:47 From  Tony Rose  to  Everyone : 7am pt won’t conflict w paper creds at 8 am
14:32:28 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : I simply won't attend regularly at that early hour. But that's just me.
14:36:49 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : +1 to Google docs for developing our docs and discussing keep questions/issues
14:37:31 From  Tony Rose  to  Everyone : +1 google doc
14:38:43 From  Trev Harmon  to  Everyone : +1 to Drummond's suggestion
14:39:10 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : No, we are not confined to these questions
14:39:36 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : Blame Jim St. Clair. That’s what I do ;-)
14:39:45 From  Kaliya Identity Woman  to  Everyone : I do think asking if there are more questions this group should answer is worth while
14:45:12 From  David Luchuk  to  Everyone : I have to drop off this call. Please let me know if anything goes haywire. See you all out there …
14:46:17 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : What is IIW?
14:46:30 From  Steve Magennis  to  Everyone : Internet Identity Workshop
14:46:31 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : Internet Identity Workshop - [Internet Identity Workshop
14:46:33 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : I guess not the International Institute of Welding...
14:46:35 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/
14:46:49 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : And its significance?
14:47:57 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : If we do have "deadlines" it helps me if those are communicated via email. That's how I take in tasks. But that's just me.
14:48:05 From  Jim StClair  to  Everyone : @Noam, it’s just the biggest identity loolapalooza
14:48:14 From  Chris Buchanan - MITRE  to  Everyone : @noam will do…
14:48:46 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : Wells, "rules engine" does not seem to be an identity issue to me.
14:49:22 From  Rob Broere  to  Everyone : Would the drafting members have access to IIW without being charged.... If we put in a lot of effort in that is being presented to IIW I would argue IIW attendees will benefit...
14:50:13 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : Rob, that’s a very good question. Hopefully Kaliya might be able to check into that (she’s one of the three co-hosts of the event).
14:50:43 From  Kaliya Identity Woman  to  Everyone : IIW is committed to accessability
14:50:54 From  Kaliya Identity Woman  to  Everyone : if you would like to attend and can’t afford it please reach out
14:51:02 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : +1
14:51:42 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : There can be some rules about what kind of identity verifier may or may not be required for a specific use case.
14:51:47 From  Kaliya Identity Woman  to  Everyone : (or if for whatever reason your company has NOT allocated any budget for virtual events) (which has happened to some folks)
14:52:33 From  Kaliya Identity Woman  to  Everyone : It would be good to have some architecture diagrams to be clear about what types for rules engines go where for what reasons
14:53:48 From  Steve Magennis  to  Everyone : there is the need to verify binding of information to a physical person
14:53:50 From  Savita Farooqui  to  Everyone : would it be useful to be more specific like validation/verification rules?
14:54:08 From  Steve Magennis  to  Everyone : maybe not a name and address, but identity nonetheless
14:54:41 From  Trev Harmon  to  Everyone : Rules engines act on identity attributes, which can and likely will contain PII. They also will need to act in concert with other identification systems.
14:55:23 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : But the core of the "rules" is what the clinical events captured in the credential mean. This is a clinical rule. Seems to me everything flows from that.
14:55:29 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : Highly recommended reading for all members of this group: https://www.goodhealthpass.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/GHPC-Interoperability-Blueprint-Outline-v2.pdf
14:56:53 From  Steve Magennis  to  Everyone : @Noam, agree. with the caveat that rules *may* or may not require PII
14:57:19 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : +1
14:57:27 From  Steve Magennis  to  Everyone : TSA might want a name 'just because'
14:58:11 From  Drummond Reed  to  Everyone : That’s where we need the social pressure of the Good Health Pass Ecosystem Governance Framework and its privacy recommendations.
14:58:17 From  Trev Harmon  to  Everyone : Yes. The rules engines will also be taking into account non-clinical events, such as border policy.
14:59:04 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : Right. But the border policy has to be invoked only once you decide how to clinically evaluate the vaccination (or test) information!
14:59:35 From  Trev Harmon  to  Everyone : Agreed. It's a confluence of several things.
14:59:40 From  Chris Buchanan - MITRE  to  Everyone : At least in the US, people will need to get their checkmark before arriving at the border.
15:00:08 From  Noam Arzt (HLN)  to  Everyone : Well, US is a whole other problem. No central authority for vaccination certification.

Action Items

Participants to fill out the Slack poll regarding the on-going meetings' time slot.
Participants to provide answers, thoughts, comments, and questions on the groups Key Interoperability Questions, and may suggest additional questions for consideration.